Beyond Borders: Mpuuga Takes His Electoral Reforms, NUP Relations To Global Stage

Mathias Mpuuga, the Member of Parliament for Nyendo-Mukungwe and Parliamentary Commissioner, recently sat down with Jackson of Voice of America (VoA) during his working visit to the USA in November 2024.

In this insightful 16:36-minute interview, Mpuuga shared his observations on the US elections, his vision for Uganda’s democratic future, and his thoughts on electoral reforms.

He also addressed the politically motivated corruption allegations and revealed his current relationship with the National Unity Platform (NUP) party, as well as his future political plans.

FileFactsUg transcribed the Interview, and here is a slightly edited version of it;

Jackson: Ugandan Legislator Mathias Mpuuga served as the electoral observer during the recently held US elections. Reflecting on his experience, Mathias Mpuuga, a former Leader of the Opposition (in parliament) in Uganda, said he was impressed by the level of independence displayed by the electoral workers in America, saying that it was a cornerstone of the independent democratic process.

In our conversation, we delve into his observations from the US, his vision for Uganda’s democratic future, and his political future plus the changes he believes are essential for electoral integrity.

MM: Jackson, first of all I am happy to be here. It has been a very good experience observing the difference between a democracy at work and then the imitations we do for democracy back home. It is a le world of difference. I missed out on the early activities because we had issues in parliament back home. So, I missed out on polling day activities. I arrived on the following day but it has been a very good experience.

In fact, I am still into the experience, tomorrow, but one I will be involved in observing the county votes. One of the counties has demonstrated to me that votes cast, then stored, and then counted after a couple of days! You do that in Uganda, and people respect results? Laughs…it is quite amazing!

It has been a very good experience because I have been reaching out, speaking to actors [including] politicians, civil society, party gurus and no body speaks to the kind of issues that informs the elections, back home.

I have not seen the military patrolling streets, polling centres or electoral areas or I have not seen electoral officials trying to breathe down the opinions of the politicians. It is a whole different game. The level of independence of the electoral officials is most disarming because they simply go about their constitutional duties, and nobody is pushing them around or trying to intimidate and tell them what to do and everyone respects them. That for me, is an eternal lesson. That is how the US remains the biggest democracy, and therefore an example to all and sundry.

Of course, the biggest complaint home over the past so many elections is the independence of the electoral commission. I was disarmed to learn that each State has its own independent electoral commission and nobody from wherever is breathing down that electoral commission.

Jackson: So, there is influence coming in from the State on how the elections is run.

MM: Exactly.

Jackson: Is it something you would love to see for Uganda, and is that tenable?

MM: Of course, it is not about good will. One of the things going on for example, one of the things that you observed in your preamble is that in the few months coming is that some of us are proposing very robust electoral reforms, and part of it would be to empower districts to be the center.

Take it to be the juxtaposition of say, a State that what is done at the district should be final. You do not have to refer to Kampala for electoral results. We want whatever is announced at the district to be the final without going to the center.

We want to empower a returning officer in the district to have the final say of the polling results.

Jackson: That seems like really a great idea. Why do you think they are not being practiced in Uganda right now…

MM:  Because the whole idea of democracy in Uganda and a bulk of Africa remains aspirational. That is why there must be a group of actors from politicians, civil society, and all over religious institutions pushing. That we respect the values, the tenets of democracy, we should not simply admire as if we are less human or less intelligent for us to put into action those kind of possibilities. It is possible. All we need to do is to have good will to do some pushing, do some cajoling, and speak to all and sundry to see that it is a very good thing.

Jackson: So, it needs to speak to stakeholders especially the people in power is that what you are saying that people with the influence and power need to speak up?

MM: Exactly. Because those in power have numbers, the resources, but also for them to understand that it is even risky for them not to begin from now to try and cultivate a culture that respect for the rule of law, and Constitutionalism across and all the time.

Jackson: So, Uganda is about to undertake a process of the elections by 13 months from now but we know that from the experience of the last elections, there was violence mostly targeting opposition figures, according to reports. How confident are you that this is not the cycle that will continue, and you have a free and fair election come next time?

MM: Some people learn history to pass exams, some people say history repeats itself but I can only say, for a fool, history repeats itself. If you are the kind of person that wishes well your country then you can learn from the fact that whatever happened in the (past) years has not helped us to move to the next level.

From my point of vintage, I can see that Uganda is in kind of a political transition from a 40-year military dictatorship to a new thinking. That thinking must be preceded by a new way of doing things and therefore, gearing up to the next election would need to rethink that what happened in the last election, does not augur well for building an enduring democracy, we need  for our own good and grandchildren is one of a democracy worth inheriting. Changing legislation will be part of our endeavor.

Jackson: You called it 40-year rule of dictatorship, but people would say that in a military dictatorship, elections are not held, but we have seen elections in the last 40 years in Uganda; what is your response to that?

MM: Every time we have held an election in Uganda, the conception is that we learnt from the past, and probably things are going to change. The prospect of respecting the Constitution hovers and then disappears then we are like probably, this was a mistake, there will be change for the better, it is not happening.

I am not taking about just good will, but the push. We need to be pushing that the rule of law is respected, that the laws of the land are adhered to, and not the law of rulers. It is not going to come easily, that much I know that we have got to do a lot of pushing, prodding, and including cajoling, and speaking to the enemies of the country to climb down and listen. The people prefer a free, and fair electoral process not a process under the barrow of the gun, not a process where the military has the final say on the electoral outcome like it happened in Uganda in many places.

So, it has not helped us a great deal. We have lost a lot of resources trying to protect and individual in power. These issues at some stage must come to table and as leaders in the country, have a close conversation as to the possibilities.

Jackson: You have been a member of parliament for over 10 years I believe, those are some of the things you have been calling for including electoral reforms, but has there been any indication that the Electoral Commission or other government bodies are taking steps to ensure a free and fair election next year, and what kind of reforms would you want to see between now, and the election time in 2026?

MM: Ordinarily, those who have power do not see anything broken because they are not in the kind of mood to undertake processes that will undermine their stronghold on the State. Those who do not have power have a duty. We want to speak with one voice, to mobilize the citizenry to participate in pushing. The nature of the African democracy is such that you must rise and push such that those who have power are not willing to speak to the ills of their hold on power are compelled.

Because that is not a personal duty, I am out and before I came to America, I had indicated to Parliament and even put in an application to table reforms to amend the Constitution to restore (presidential) term limits in the Constitution, to change the structure of parliament, to change the way we vote parliament, to pave way for voting of over 2 million Ugandan in the diaspora.

Jackson: That is a big voice

MM: They are a big voice, they are remitting a lot of money back home, and even allow other categories of people like the prisoners that are not on the death low to vote yet they are allowed in other jurisdictions.

We want to even change a number other laws. You remember that all the past four elections in Uganda have been contested but the form and manner of their contestation have been skewed. I am making a range of proposals to make it easy for a citizen to even to challenge a particular…

For example, if an election is held, there are areas that I will say, I have won in Masaka, I have won in Kitgum, I must be (allowed) to challenge results in that area for example in Luweero

Jackson: is that the level of transparency that you honestly believe is possible?

MM: The world never gives what you deserve, you must make a bargain, and a hard bargain. So, I am tabling a range of proposals for a hard bargain to the political class and those holding on to the power and I am going to be home to mobilize political groups, political parties, civil society, religious institutions, to join this quest for these reforms.

Jackson: What kind of safeguards would you like to see in the coming election period to protect members of the opposition who have been previously targets of violence whether state sponsored or non-state sponsored?

MM: I think as long as Uganda still claims to be part of the global family of democracy, they must be pushed to have the military out of our elections. Like we observed here, I did not see anybody with a gun at a polling station, or anyone trying to influence the electoral outcome anywhere.

So, we want the Military out of these elections. Secondly, we want to see the electoral commission empowered to act independently in these elections as part of the safeguards. To accept those reforms I am talking about. If you believe in a free, and fair electoral process and believe in democracy, transparency is inevitable.

As long as you continue operating opaque, then you cannot lay a claim to democracy, you are simply organizing a selection not an election.

Jackson: Let us talk about you personally some point until recently; you had a title the Leader of the opposition. That is not a title that many have had in a society, what happened because you have been part of the new cycle in Uganda, but lately it is not let us talk about it whether it is connected to money, talk to us a little bit about that? Give us an understanding of what took place and whether you are still part of the opposition NUP party.

MM: First of all, we had a change of leadership sometime last year in parliament and it was smooth because holding on to the public office is not a person to holder. You are supposed to serve to common good, and when the changes happened, I was posted into the Commission again on behalf of the opposition where I am still a commissioner of parliament.

The issues that you heard in parliament, was part of the political maneuvering in the opposition. Unfortunately, in the opposition, there is a lot of backstabbing and as long as one is interested in outmaneuvering the other, or scared of the other a lot takes place, and you heard the allegations of corruption.

Corruption should never be a debate anywhere. As long as an allegation of corruption becomes a debate, then you know it has no efficacy, it is simply a political maneuvering because corruption should never be a debate. When there is corruption, everybody should say that is corruption, when it becomes a debate, then you know that is politics. That is what has been happening. Fortunately, I am a veteran of these wars and I am able to overcome them.

We have opened a new page, we are moving on. As for my involvement with the NUP, legally I am still a member of NUP. In terms of involvement in their organization, no.

Jackson: Are you still caucusing with them?

MM: That is what I am saying because it is no longer feasible for me to caucus with them I am surprised that they are in disarray because there is a level of experience, knowledge that you add to a young organization when you are part of them.

You do not have to be at the top, but when you are part of them, there is a bit of difference. I think without necessarily blowing my trumpet, the difference is now visible. But in the coming weeks or months, I will be clear to you Ugandans, the kind of political direction but I remain part and parcel of the opposition. I will not join the ruling party, I will never join them, I do not have their DNA, our philosophies are different.

So, I am still part of the big opposition in the country to cause change that we desire.

Jackson: Hon. Mathias Mpuuga, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us. Before I let you go you hopeful that in the next election in Uganda things will go smoothly?

MM: I cannot commit, we have to push. There are no donations; there are no grants in politics. There are hard bargains, but I am going to be part of that hard bargain to make the difference.

Jackson: I like that. That is a good way to end this Interview.

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